> Big Thompson Properties > Hayden Proposal Q & A

Hayden Subdivision Proposal Q & A

Public Meeting at Big Thompson Community Building
January 20, 2009

QUESTIONS & ANSWERS:

Is it a fact that fishermen have already received access to many other properties in the canyon?

Yes, anglers have received access to properties over the years that include Sleepy Hollow, Forks, Glade and the Narrows, which are County owned flood parcels that have been designated as Parks. Additionally, the County has identified eight other unimproved roadside parcels which are considered suitable for public access. None of the BT flood parcels sold thus far have been conducive to fishing access. Other properties owned by the Federal Government and the City of Loveland are also available for public access in the Canyon.

How much land along the river is open to fishing? What percent?

The exact percentage is unknown but if you considered all of the public lands along the river from Estes Park to the bottom of the Narrows one would conclude that there is more acres dedicated to public access compared to private ownership.

Fishermen have access to the whole river, except for about 700 feet in this area. What is the big deal?

Anglers do not have access to the entire river in this area. The Hayden portion of the BT parcel project appears to be a "big deal" because it is the first large scale proposal and is being scrutinized by all interests. It is essential for the Parks Advisory Board and Natural Resource staff to listen to all concerns and opinions in order to make an informed recommendation to the County Commissioners regarding this proposal.

The public already has access many places along the river, why do they need more?

The public does have access points to the river; however, one must consider that once the County sells a flood parcel it is no longer guaranteed for public access. The public is aware of this and is expressing concerns. Fishermen think that these areas along the river will increase in popularity in the future and there will be a need for additional public access. Additionally, providing public access has been a priority of the Board of County Commissioners.

Why do fishermen want to fish right in front of our houses? Why can't they stay on the other side of the river?

Most certainly, anglers are not fishing in front of homes just because they can. For many anglers fishing the entire width of a waterway is part of the experience while others are satisfied with fishing one side. Fishermen feel that the County owned property along the river near private parcels should remain public so that they will be able to access both sides of the river to fish.

How many fishermen ever volunteered to help maintain public access areas in the canyon?

We have had fishermen as volunteers in our County programs and some fishermen in these groups have offered to help with these parcels when they are designated.

Where is the sanctuary for wildlife? Where is there access for geese, bears, merganser, beaver, ducks which live right there?

Wildlife species move along the river regardless of land ownership and are protected or hunted in approved seasons administered by the Division of Wildlife (DOW). To date the DOW has not requested any special designation for a wildlife sanctuary in this area.

You're not going to take anything from ground that's already in private ownership, correct?

Larimer County does not intend to take ground from private ownership. Our goal is to sell certain County Ownerships not acquire more.

What would stop the County from condemning property and taking additional private property?

Again, Larimer County does not intend to acquire private property as part of the project. In fact, laws governing the power of condemnation (eminent domain) are specific as to when they can be used by a governmental entity, and the circumstances of this project would not qualify for the use of the powers of eminent domain.

Before the County sells other parcels, will you suggest the same proposal on all those properties? If they do, will they try to take my property, too?

Each area within the BT flood parcel project is unique and will be considered for disposition based on the circumstances which exist for a given area. What is finalized in one area may look different in the next. Again, Larimer County does not intend to acquire private property as part of the project and is not taking anyone's private property.

She lives in Cedar Cove; there is a parcel next to her - will an easement go there, too? Will the County string it all the way up to the Honsteins?

Again, each project area in the BT flood parcel project is unique and will be considered for disposition based on the circumstances which exist for a given area. There are no plans to "string" properties together along the river in the Canyon.

If the property sold, there would be no surveying done, and purchasers would have to pay for it themselves. Is that correct?

Early on, the County stated that it would not be surveying its ownerships along the Big Thompson due to the enormous expense that would be incurred. As the Hayden project area developed, it became apparent that a survey would be necessary in order to achieve what was being contemplated. Under normal or simple transaction circumstances, which Hayden is not, the buyer would need to arrange for and pay the cost of a survey if they chose to do so.

He sees that another survey has been done off the 5-10 feet easement. He measured, and the property pins are anywhere from 7 - 21 feet from the river. Why?

The simple answer is the bank is very irregular and the visible survey markers are angle points which generally represent 5 feet above the top of bank.

How is the edge of the river figured for these proposals?

The edge of river would be what exists at the time of a survey and would generally be the bottom of the east bank of the river.

If the edge changes with high or low water, who gives up the difference - the County or the owner?

The ownerships will be legally described to given surveyed points. As the water levels rise and fall, the ownerships do not change.

If lots sell after this has gone through, do purchasers lose that 10 feet under #1 or #2?

The County will only be selling what it does not want to retain. Once a property is sold, the private party will have full ownership and the County has no further interest.

If the County keeps a 10 ft. strip of the land, is that deducted from the price of the lot if sold by the County? What is the square footage?

The County will only be selling what it does not want to retain. If the decision is made to retain up to a certain point, then only the portion that is not retained is sold. Square footages will be calculated once the final decision has been made as to what is being sold and what is being retained for public access.

The chapel has limited parking there. Where do the church members (whose average age is 80 and some are on oxygen) park to reach the chapel?

It is our understanding that the County parcels are currently used for parking. We are working with the church and other interested parties to sell the lots that could be used for temporary church parking.

Speaking for the Chapel of the Interlude, they own Lot 34, and are interested in Lot 32. If the County offers access across Lot 32, how will that work?

If the final decision is made to retain access across a County lot, then the details of how that will look will be discussed with whoever will be the new landowner.

Would that be the responsibility of the County or the property owners to put up signs?

The County would designate the property as public.

And how will public access be controlled? How will private owners be able to keep the public off?

A lot of the details of exactly how the access will be controlled have not fully been decided; however it will be necessary to mark the boundary in some natural unobtrusive way.

Lots 1, 2 and 4 are privately owned and go to the center of the river. So if Option #1 or #2 were passed, how would it be identified that these lots are private and there is no access?

We would have to work with the affected landowners and come up with a way to show the boundary.

If the County retains ownership under #1 or #2, will the County police it and pick up trash?

The County will remain the responsible party for the property under County ownership.

If the County retains ownership of that 10 feet strip, who will pull the knapweed that is invading that area?

The County will remain the responsible party with weed control.

We heard at the last Parks Advisory Board meeting, that the department is cutting budgets. So where is the money coming from to build a pedestrian corridor?

The concept of a pedestrian corridor is not something that would be built. It could be as simple as an area defined by signage and simple natural boundaries.

Who is going to maintain the walkway for the public?

Properties that remain in County ownership will be maintained by the department.

Will the River Fork road be left the way it is?

Yes, it will remain as is.

What role does the Parks Advisory Board play in this process?

The Parks Advisory Board listens to citizens concerns, staff recommendations, reaches its own decision based on all information available, and makes a recommendation to the Board of County Commissioners for their consideration.

I see those maps, and nowhere on there does it say who did the map, who did the survey. Is it an official County paper?

The map that Charlie Johnson presented at the January 20th meeting is the official survey map that will be used to present options to the public and Parks Advisory Board for this project in the Hayden Subdivision. All other maps are unofficial unless designated otherwise.

What is the time frame for a decision on these options?

The Parks Advisory Board will be presented with the 3 options that were given to the public on January 20 at their February Board meeting. There will be a 60 day comment period that begins after the February board meeting. After the Parks Advisory Board has heard all public comment after the 60 day comment period, they will announce their recommendation and staff will take their recommendation to the Commissioners for a final decision.

Is there an Option #4 - no change? Retain the status quo? Sell as originally planned?

It was the County Commissioner's direction to explore the areas and allow public access where appropriate.